[4b2]

You know it wasn’t that long ago this government was lecturing Labor about the debt they cerated for our grandchildren to pay off.  Now it seems that out great great great grandchildren will be paying off this government’s debts and their grandparents’ mortgages.

They may even be living in a hermit nation created by a deceptive evasive and secretive government. I doubt many European nations will be lining up to secure long term contracts with this lot.

I just wish they would stop trying to provoke a war with a superpower. They will send other people’s children to be slaughtered on the battlefield with only the death count as the final outcome.

[Tom Tank]

It beggars belief how belligerent our government is toward our largest trading partner. There is more ways to win a war than by fighting and if we lose our iron ore and coal sales to China we will be in deep trouble. We have also upset our 2nd biggest trading partners, the E.U.  We won’t be able to afford the nuclear powered submarines let alone the hypersonic missiles etc the are part of this deal.

The last time we got so involved with the U.S. and U.K. was when we became part of the Coalition of the Willing which turned out to be a disaster resulting in the growth of ISIS and untold misery in the Middle East.

The U.S. are past there peak of power and glory and the U.K. are living in cloud cuckoo land dreaming of a lost Empire as they turn the clock back reverting from Metric to tons, hundredweights, pound and ounces as well as miles, furlongs, yards feet and inches. The U.K. could well be on the cusp of disintegration with the current Government being described recently by Christopher Patten, the last British Governor of Hong Kong, as an English Nationalistic Government and that Wales and Scotland should strive for Independence. 

Trade deals, although agreed to and signed, are based upon trust and Australia have betrayed the trust of more than a few over recent years, Afghan who helped us during our military operations for example as well as the French with this submarine deal. That French submarine was orginally designed as a nuclear powered vessel so why not just revert back to its original design instead causing such an upset and tying ourselves to the U.S. even more than we are now.

 

[Russell]

Australia has been tied to America for decades and it has been a disaster. Military wise the Australian government has followed America like a little lap dog into several wars that neither America the big “I am and you will do what I say” country or Australia has defeated the enemy and even now with this Covid virus the Great??? Scott Morrison has followed the lead of America. Both Trump and Pomeo stated that this virus started in a lab and Scott Morrison quickly jumped on the band wagon and both the American leaders quickly shut their mouths and left it all to the stupid Australian PM Scott Morrison. The reason why America shut their mouths was that their own state department told them that the lab was being controlled and financed by America. As for the military conflicts, Korea; America lost and left a country divided, Vietnam; America lost, The Middle East; America lost, remember the rubbish that little Johnny Howard carried on about with the weapons of mass destruction, of which none were ever found, and now the war in Afghanistan; all those Australia soldiers lives sacrificed for what and now the cowardly way that both Australia and America deserted all those people that helped them during this conflict. Australia and America are a disgrace to humanity. Australia had a ship building industry but did Australia build their own warships leading up to the Vietnam war, NO, they bought the American Charles F Adams which had to be dry docked as soon as they arrived in Australia and have the stern rebuilt to take the Ikara missile because Australia was too stupid to have the ship strengthened before it was delivered or even build them in Australia by Australian workers. Australia the arse lickers of America or is Australia the 52 state of America 

[Jotar]

China is our friend??? Wake up. Most of you should be old enough to have family members whose lives were impacted by Hitler’s  brutality. Check out Hitler’s self-worshipping parades. Ping is repeating Hitler’s ego-driven performances. So maybe the history repeaat button has been pressed?

As for our largest trading partner..time we found other sources of goods and stopped supporting China’s use of 21st century slavery…would you work for Chinese “wage” rates?   

As for the French Tanty….far more Australian blood was spilt on French soil than vice versa. Maybe France should be funding subs for our defence in return for the supreme sacrifices our brave Diggers made for France?    

So our leaders see the need to tell Ping to back off…as any rational leader with the interests of the Nation top of mind would do. Well done Scomo!!

 

[Tom Tank]

Nobody has said China is our friend and they can be difficult to deal with as they are extremely sensitive to criticism. Trading does not have to be with a friend but with someone who has shown to be trustworthy in their dealings by taking the goods and paying for them on time then buying more.

Perhaps Jotar you might suggest another country who will take the quantity of iron ore and coal China take? 

America has been on the losing side in every war they have been involved with since 1945 except for Korea, which is effectively a draw as it is not settled yet, and that part of the British Commonwealth they invaded when Reagan was President and Thatcher British P.M.  

[Jim]

Perhaps Tom you might want to explain who and what we are going to be trading once Labor and the greens coalition take over, no more coal or iron ore to sell, do you really believe the Chinese will be better masters than the US, our values are more aligned with western cultures than any other culture, do we and them get it wrong sometimes yes, would we be better off giving up our alliances clearly no, China has clearly stated they will take over Taiwan and they will do it by whatever means necessary including force, if they decide they are going to do the same to us, who is going to stop them, it might not happen this year or in the next 10 years but the possibility it could happen some time in the future is always going to be present. As for trusting China, they have shown recently how much they can be trusted with their antics on tariffs 450% on wine just to name one, their intent is to weaken us economically then who knows what after that.

[Tom Tank]

There is absolutely no reason why we will stop selling iron ore to China unless China stops taking it. I am sure that would be the ALP’s attitude although I have no connection with them. As far as coal is concerned steaming coal is on the way out around the world but coking coal is a different kettle of fish and that could continue for some years. 

The situation with Taiwan is complicated as it has always been part of China and used to be known as Formosa. At the end of the war between Japan and China where China had two military forces things got complicated. The two forces were the Communists and the other the existing government forces led by Chiang Kai Shek, I think that is how is name is spelt. The interesting thing is that the U.S. advisers in China recommended that the U.S. supported the Communists but the White House were horrified and supported Chiang. Chaing lost the battles against Mao and he took over Formosa and declared it independent of China. They then changed the name to Taiwan and the U.S. have continued to support them ever since.

The imposition of tariffs on our products into China only started after Morrison made his rather belligerent speech demanding and investigation into the origins of Covid 19, and it was belligerent, pointing the finger at China. That was not a good move given our trading relationship at that point and it has gone downhill since then.

China doesn’t need to fight a war to take us over as they are winning it through trade, whether we or the U.S. like it or not. Globalisation, pushed by big corporations in search of cheap labour, made this possible for China.

A look at history and behind current headlines, but not Murdochs, to get to the reasons why things are happening. A lot of the current finger pointing at China could well be related to our upcoming election as incumbent governments love to have a crisis that makes them look in control in the lead up to an election.  

[Viking]

Let’s hope China can wait at least another 20 years to allow time for the LNP to make up its mind on which submarines we’re going to use against them. It’s only taken them eight years and three different subs to arrive at a position of no manufacturer, no price and no delivery date. Let’s just hope the Chinese are patient.

If I recall it was the lack of a price which has prevented many in the LNP from committing to a carbon reduction  policy, principles and consistency are obviously optional for the LNP!

If China is the enemy Morrison purports it to be, how can he and the LNP justify having no submarines on order and waiting 20 years for delivery when we eventually do?

Out of interest the French nuclear powered subs cost them around €1.3 billion each to build in France but we were budgeting around  $7,5 billion (€4.65) each to build oil fired subs locally, go figure!

When the man whose vision only extended to declaring ”coal is the future’ is now ordering atomic submarines, we all have cause for concern.

[Oxleigh]

We will be a chinese out post even more than we are now withing 5 years, get ready for a big red star on our flag and the chinese navy blocking our ports.

Even at my age I will be with the resistance, we need to start now, tell france to shove their little tantrums as well, Lots of Aussies have died to save their arrogant and ignorant attitudes to the rest of the world during the wars, as others have said.

china owns Australia now, just ask Annie Dollarcheck in chinesland, the footbrawl money state. The feds are bowing to china as well.

While we are at it the CFMEU alias blf need to get rid of the parasitic leader, and the bikie organised crime security they employ, stirring up the renta crowd. Get the fire engines to hose them all dow continuously and keep them cold and they will go home.

[Sue Ridge]

The debt that has been created was to deal with the economic side of the pandemic and has kept a lot of businesses afloat and, more importantly, kept a lot of key staff for those businesses so that they could continue trading as quickly as possible. The vaccines have had to be paid for and not only has the cost of the vaccines been carried by the government but the cost of administering the doses so that those of us who chose to have the vaccine have done so free of cost. When the debt is compared with GNP it is quite within reason and our international credit rating is still high.

The Chinese problem started because Australia asked a simple question about the origin of COVID-19. China resented the question and immediately started its bully boy tactics firstly through the barley exports and subsequently through other trade goods. As a proud Australian, I’m pleased that our government has stood up to the bullies and has quickly moved to find other markets for our produce and ores. The signing of the AUKUS agreement together with the Five Eyes agreement should make China think twice about any military action against Australia. China has been spoiling for a fight for many years and has tried to take over the South China Sea as well as islands that do not belong to them.

[Tom Tank]

The problem is they have not found another market for our iron ore. 

[Suze]

It may be time to start up our manufacturing instead of importing everything ?

[Suze]

[PlanB]

Yes, Suze, it is darn ridiculous the amount we IMPORT and also frightening that we rely on other counties to supply almost everything we use,  we used to make everything here and were very independent and everyone had a  job.

Also,  so many foods that were grown and packed here no longer are, which seem to change week by week and because so many knew they used to be all Aussie they never check.

When it hits the fan we are going to be in DEEP DOODOO

Wake up Aussie and start being independent and STOP selling off our county too!

[auldtic]

4b2, Russel, Tom Tank, Viking  and Suze raise a number of sensible points and appear to be thinking about what is current.

Why raise  France in WW1, Australia had a minuscule part in a much larger force, France was never involved in a war in Australia.  Old inaccurate jingoism seems a bit silly really.

 

 

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